Quran may promise grapes, not virgins

bq.. It has long been a staple of Islam that Muslim martyrs will go to paradise and marry 72 black-eyed virgins. But a growing body of rigorous scholarship on the Quran points to a less sensual paradise — and, more important, may offer a step away from fundamentalism and toward a reawakening of the Islamic world.

…The Quran is beautifully written, but often obscure. One reason is that the Arabic language was born as a written language with the Quran, and there’s growing evidence that many of the words were Syriac or Aramaic.

For example, the Quran says martyrs going to heaven will get “hur,” and the word was taken by early commentators to mean “virgins,” hence those 72 consorts. But in Aramaic, hur meant “white” and was commonly used to mean “white grapes.”

Some martyrs arriving in paradise may regard a bunch of grapes as a letdown[1]. But the scholar who pioneered this pathbreaking research, using the pseudonym Christoph Luxenberg for security reasons, noted in an e-mail interview that grapes made more sense in context because the Quran compares them to crystal and pearls, and because contemporary accounts have paradise abounding with fruit, especially white grapes.

>> “Charlotte Observer”:http://www.centredaily.com/mld/observer/9353496.htm

p. If it’s virgins, 72 seems a bit too many, while if its grapes, than why only 72?

More from the same article:

bq. Luxenberg’s analysis, which has drawn raves from many scholars, also transforms the meaning of the verse that is sometimes cited to require women to wear veils. Instead of instructing pious women ”to draw their veils over their bosoms,” he says, it advises them to ”buckle their belts around their hips.”


bq.. …Nicholas D. Kristof, in this shortsighted and ignorant article, claims that the Muslims line up for martyrdom mission because they expect to be welcomed by 72 virgins in heaven. If the martyr-wanna-be’s were to realize the prize in heaven for martyrdom was the Aramaic “Hur” (white grapes) and not the Arabic “Hur” (described variedly as a beauty, enchantress and virgin), argues Kristof, then Muslims would probably would not be in such a rush to kill themselves.

This, of course, assumes that the old Hollywood stereotype of the Arab as some sort of a perverted, illiterate, maniacal sex-craving fiend is applicable to all those Muslims who volunteer for suicide missions. Take away the virgins, Kristof’s argument suggests, and the fiends would simply take their salivating chops to the next whore house instead of the next bomb belt or Kalashnikov.

Never mind the years of humiliation at the hands of Israelis. Never mind the oppressive, violent regimes supported by the United States. Never mind the stripping away of their sovereignty that has left them naked to exploitation since the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. Take away the virgins, replace them with grapes, and all of this is resolved.

This kind of thinking, which treats the Arab and Muslim as some kind of a hapless, backward, pathetic, and sick creature is exactly the reason why Americans continue to misunderstand and, therefore, prolong the violent tussle which turns friends into foes.

Those who argue that the Quran, or its misreading, are the cause of violent Islamic fundamentalism forget that for over three generations the most violent Arab and Muslim groups coming out of the Middle East were socialist and secular.

>> “Common Dreams: Grapes? Virgins? Does That Explain Suicide Bombers? “:http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0805-02.htm

p. “It”:http://www.centredaily.com/mld/observer/9353496.htm may be a sorry excuse of an article, but the _grapes v.s virgins_ point has been debated for a long long time now.

*Update:* The ‘Quran’:http://quran.nu/ and the hadith unequivocally and repeatedly promise numerous big breasted virgins to martyrs in heaven, so there is no debate really.

fn1. You can say that again!

46 thoughts on “Quran may promise grapes, not virgins”

  1. What happens after grape #72?

    Another aspect debated for long: What do women receive for their ‘pious’ behaviour? Citizen Kristof offers no ‘clarifications’ on that–even though women have blown themselves up in Palestine.

  2. 🙂 the debate of Virgins or Grapes never be end until one get in there and see *useless debate*;

    yes according to Ahadith women in Jannah get more beauty than Hur,she is more pretty than Hur,and they get married to men in Jannah;

  3. A comment on the counterpoint:

    “Never mind the years of humiliation at the hands of Israelis” ( why must Arabs continue to obsess over a sliver of land. The Arab lands are vast and has places more beautiful and more holy to Muslims. Why can’t Arabs just leave the Israelis alone. Bet the Israelis wouldn’t bother the Arabs if the Arabs stopped bothering them). “Never mind the oppressive, violent regimes supported by the United States” (Agreed, the US gets on the wrong side sometimes. That capitalism thing). “Never mind the stripping away of their sovereignty that has left them naked to exploitation since the collapse of the Ottoman Empire” (Also agreed. But is not this being offered now? And the suicide bombers have not stopped).

    Unfortunately, there has not been anywhere near enough condemnation for the horrific actions taken by so called Muslims by the mainstream Islamic clergy and organizations. The outrage should be deafening. It isn’t. So Arabs have every right to be upset by an article that shows them in a bad light. But they also need to accept some responsibility for the jabs being taken at them.

  4. That grape idea indicates huge ignorance on part of those who thought of it. If they bothered to read the rest of the Quran they would have encountered verses that say that “we married the beleivers in the hereafter to hur”. I bet it means they will marry grapes then! Good luck next time.

  5. The concept of “Jannah” in my opinion is far more than mere “huurs” or grapes. It is the concept of reward; Jannah could be anything for anyone. Allah has the resources and power to create anything for anyone.

    He can reard anyone the way he wants to. Another thing that we need to understand is that Quran has a very symbolic language. Allah has spoken to humans in many symbolic ways regarding lots of things ranging from the proces of childbirth, resurrection on the judgement day and the universe itself.

    My opinion… Concentrate on the philosophy of islam and the way of life it depicts. As for the uninformed if not deliberately annoying blabbering by the psuedo-intellectuals… I am not bothered. These views depict just my own opinions.

  6. Interesting idea….

    However I believe that the Quran never mentions seventy-two virgins. It does mention “chaste companions” 38:52.

  7. Well… very interesting topic, but makes me think… how many more possible discoveries would surface and how would it change the whole Quranic interpretation. This might just be the beginning. It is not easy to know that something you believed in all your life is not real… that your reality is not real…. WOW! On the other hand i agree with a couple of people who’ve quoted the QUran regarding marriage in the heavens to pious companions… the grape thing does not change that belief as there are other verses supporting the same ideology. But it does change the way martydom is looked upon by the west i suppose….

    Heheheheh marry grapes!! that is funny bassem….

    as far as women being martyred is concerned… if there are only divine women up there.. boy it is gonna be one big gay place!!!

  8. Just recently I heard that there would be virgins up in heaven for all muslim men. Being new to Islam, I havent yet read such in the Qu’ran, but discussed the issue with my husband who indeed says it to be true, but also suggested that the idea of virgins may not be as it seems in our world today. I believe it isnt going to be what it sounds like, as only Allah knows what is perfect. Heaven is beyond any of our imagingations, and until that day, I dont think any of us should interpret “Paradise” or “Virgins” since really we all might be surprised!

  9. In That Which Is Coming are we to read:

    . . .with fruits of their own choice . . . And theirs shall be dark-eyed white grapes . . . ?

    It doesn’t make sense. If they’ve chosen their fruits why should the grapes be added thereto?

    Moreover, in the previous surah ‘virgins’, or ‘houris’, are specifically named twice.

    The idea is tongue-in-cheek where it can play mockingly with its academic grape seeds.


  10. 72 virgins are not the only reason a palestinian decides to become a suicide bomber, to believe so would be oversimplification.

    again, there are passages where the martyrs will be married to houris; if hur is a grape, to marry one is not a good prospect. (Koran 52:17-20)

    further, this muslim heaven is a win-win situation for all of us- if only you carefully look into it: the muslim heaven will have only male muslim martyrs; the women and the poor infidels (us!) will be thrown into the hell. but a place where there are no suicide bombers and where there are all the women in the world, is HEAVEN!

  11. man, nick said it…it has to be virgins, think logically…also scholors ARE VERY careful when intrupreting the ahadith, the legacy of Rasullullah (saw). sheesh, whos interpreting this??

  12. many before have ridiculed. history is full of such ignorent souls.they harm not the divine message but themselves.its not for grapes or virgins but for flying the emblem of truth higher and higher.many arrogant nations have perished before.are you staying forever as an individual or a nation?very soon we surely will see the truth with our own eyes.what harm can we cause to almighty by making fun of signs.we harm not almighty but ourselves.

  13. I see that what ever someone says up here on this post persuades the reader, just as it persuaded me to post a message. that is why I DO NOT AGREE that making false interpretations of GOD(ALLAH)’s signs is just. It doesn’t just affect you, it affects anyone who EVER reads your comment, that will affect their life. Don’t you know that? if you are going to post something, try not to just only pick out what you think is negative. Try to quote some truth. That’s all i have to say. Do something good for your soul. Pass on some good positive knnowledge like i am passing on right now, because, righteous teachings and charity are the only two acts that you can do that keep working to earn you blessings even after you die. THINK ABOUT IT. AS-SALAAMU-ALAKIUM(Peace Be Unto YOU)

  14. hahaha, what a BULLshit! 72 grapes? u better come up with something better! EVERYBODY knows that it was VIRGINS not grapes, do u really think that Muhammad cared about grapes hahaha…he was used to having alot of wives himself, living as a profet? i think not! living as a lustfull man and using his power.

    Besides why 72? why not 70 or something else, it doesint make sence. It explains why there is so many suecidebombers, they are happy to die so that they can drink from a golden cup and be surrounded by 72 virgins ;)…but hey, did Muhammad forget to mention the poor women? what will THEY get when they die? will they be one of the virgins serving the men in the after life too? WHAT A RELIGION! MARVELOUS HAHAHA

  15. In my opinion muslims and christians are infinitely apart in their way of thinking and understanding. There can and never will be a compromise when either side is of the belief that they have the one and only true God. Sadly, the muslims are at a stalemate within their own kingdom; they are not allowed to question the validity of power. Without question there can be no answers – so better to keep the sheep blind during their journey so none of them will be frieghtened to jump the rails along the way to the slaughter house.

    What must the One and Only True God think of all of us for our propogating ideas, opinions, disbelief, lawlessness and discriminations? In the very instance God is supposed to be LOVE and FORGIVENESS. But the God I see being portrayed in recent times by the media, Christians, Jews and Muslims is one who condones unruliness, slander, slaughter, corruption and mastery. The entire planet is guilty as sin because we are all perpetuating this Demon we have created to replace God.

  16. To the person which criticised Nicholas Kristof, and said that the virgins arent the main reason people blow themselves up, could I just mention that one of the 9/11 hijackers is recorded as saying to another, shortly before their act of mass murder, ‘Just think of those virgins were gonna get.’ Political reasons may explain why people will fight, but not why they will blow themselves up.

  17. (Cont) – Often, Muslims have blown themselves up where other options existed by which they could have saved their lives, while still killing just as many infidels. For example, in the London bombings last year, they could have just left bombs on trains as had been done in Madrid the previous year. It seems to me that to explain such a cult of death, some belief in a reward in paradise is required

  18. Grapes, flowers, virgins, whatever. I don’t think I have ever know of any Christians

    wearing a suicide vest set out to kill innocent people. If the Mullahs or teachers of the bombers really believe what they preach, why aren’t they first in line to wear the vest.

    I’m so glad that in my country I am free to question bad decisions. Does anyone really think killing innocent children and beheading women will get them in Heaven? Many Christians have a saying “What would Jesus do?”.

  19. ^ Cuz, no decent Muslim would say that killing innocent people with suicide bombing is good. Even suicide bombing itself is a very big question mark, if not impermissible.

    And, as for this interpretation about Quran, I will only say that lets worry about entering heaven first!

  20. I am not surprise, maybe just a little bit offended by this ignorant overimplification of the Holy Quran. Whether some of us like it or not The Holy Quran is the greatest book ever written(Who can be a greater Author than Allah swa. who created us?). Allah(swa) himself said that if all mankind and all the jinns should combine their powers they will never be able to produce anything close to the perfection of the Quran. The Quran in itself is a mystery and it will continue to be so till the end of time. The Quran applies to all periods of mankind be it in the past, the present or the future, because of that some portions of the Quran will continue to be a mystery.People will continue to mock or misrepresent the Quran all in an effort to tarnish it’s image, but this theywill fail to do because it is a book that is being guarded by its creator SubhanWatAllah.

    What I say to the simple minded disbelivers; at least before agreeing(which you are so ready to do, and easily manipulated) at least take the time to read and ponder the Holy Quran , the greatest book ever writen,before coming up with ignorant remarks or questions of this sort.

    With time there will always be so call muslims trying to decipher the Quran in their own way to ‘liberate muslims’. This is within the boundaries of faith testing, if one is a muslim, knows their Quran and understands it there is nothing to be afraid of because a persons faith cannot be shaken by simple minded pranksters.

  21. Dear KO.

    i don’t want to step into the quagmire of this stale debate.

    i would just like to comment on your query, if it’s one, “why 72?”

    for arabs 70 (or 72) meant a big number. perhaps it never meant the number 70. i don’t know. infact, 70 is used everywhere in quraan, with similar connotations.



  22. i was wondering if someone could e-mail me and tell me what the whole 72 virgins thing is all about?? in one of the mohammed cartoons, it has a group of men walking upa clould and a man saying “Stop, Stop, weve run out of virgins”

    what is with the 72 virgins thing??


  23. I would like to know that too. Can any knowledgeable person point to the exact passage in the Koran that mentions 72 anything?

  24. I would like to know that too. Can any knowledgeable person point to the exact passage in the Koran that mentions 72 anything?

  25. First, there is no mention anywhere in the Quran of the actual number of virgins available in paradise, and second, the dark-eyed damsels are available for all Muslims, not just martyrs. It is in the Islamic Traditions that we find the 72 virgins in heaven specified: in a Hadith (Islamic Tradition) collected by Al-Tirmidhi (died 892 AD) in the Book of Sunan (volume IV, chapters on The Features of Paradise as described by the Messenger of Allah [Prophet Muhammad], chapter 21, About the Smallest Reward for the People of Paradise, (Hadith 2687). The same hadith is also quoted by Ibn Kathir (died 1373 CE ) in his Quranic commentary (Tafsir) of Surah Al-Rahman (55), verse 72.

    bq.. Quranic verses (Translated by Maolana A. Yousuf Ali) that promises Heaven with Houris, Sex, and Wine for the pious Muslims:

    Quran-(52:17-20): “They will recline (with ease) on thrones arranged in ranks. And We shall marry them to Huris (fair females) with wide lovely eyes.” “There they shall pass from hand to hand a (wine) cup, free from any Laghw….”

    Quran: (37:40-48): …they will sit with bashful, dark-eyed virgins, as chaste as the sheltered eggs of ostriches.

    Quran: (44:51-55): Yes and we shall wed them to dark-eyed houris (beautiful virgins).

    Quran: (55:56-57): In them will be bashful virgins neither man nor Jinn will have touched before. Then which of the favours of your Lord will you deny?

    Quran-(55:72): “Hur (beautiful, fair females) guarded in pavilions;”

    Quran: (78:31): “As for the righteous, they surely triumph. Their gardens and vineyards and high-bosomed (pointed breast) virgins for companions, truly overflowing cup”

    Quran-(78: 33-34):”And young full-breasted (mature) maidens of equal age, and a full cup of wine.”

    Quran-(55:57-58): “Then which of the blessings of your lord will you both (jinn and men) deny? (In beauty) they are like rubies and coral”.

    Quran-(56:7-40): ” …we created the houris and made them virgins, loving companions for those on the right hand….”

    Quran-(55:70-77): ” In each there shall be virgins chaste and fair….dark eyed virgins sheltered in their tents whom neither man or Jinn have touched before…”

    Quran-56:22: “And (there will be) Huris with wide, lovely eyes (as wives for the pious)”

    Quran-(56: 35-36): “Verily , We have created them (maidens) of special creation. And made them Virgins.”

    Quran- (55:56): “Wherein both will be Qasirat-ut-Tarf (chaste females restraining their glances, desiring none except their husband) with whom no man or jinni has had tamth before them.”

    Quran: (2:25): “And give glad tidings to those who believe and do righteous good deeds, that for them will be Gardens under which rivers flow (Paradise)……….and they will be given these things in resemblance (i.e., in the same form but different in taste) and they shall have therein Azwajun Muhtahharatun (purified mates and wives) and that they will have abide therein forever”.

    Quran:(47:15): “The description of Paradise which the Muttaqun have been promised (is that) in it are rivers of water the taste and smell of which are not changed, rivers of milk of which the taste never changes, rivers of wine delicious to those who drink, and rivers of clarified honey……….”

    Quran-(40-45): “Surely for the God-fearing awaits a place of security gardens and vineyards and maidens with swelling (protruding) bosoms.”

    p. See http://quran.nu/

  26. Shoot- CANT believe this is happening. I began to read about pro- and anti islam about a week back just to find why islamic terrorism exists. Yes, Islam mentions the following in clear points –

    1. Kill Unbeleivers

    2. Heaven means – virgins, wine, milk and all that materialistic shit.

    3. Can marry upto 4 women

    4. Should not marry mothers, sisters other relatives (thanks for letting us know)

    5. Allowed to kill and own other man’s women

    6. Men are superior and get more share in inheritance

    7. If Women is poven guilty of adultery, she has to be killed but Men can be punished but not killed.

    8. Adultery like Rape has be be proved by atleast 4 witnesses. ha ha

    9. Jesus Christ was praying Allah

    10. Cannot see wife naked.

  27. So, do they have sex with the virgins, in which case they

    are no longer virgins. What self respecting woman, in her

    right mind would choose this stupid, mean, hatefilled religion.

    I don’t see anything but servitude for a woman…and that is

    one that is considered to be a good woman on this earth.

    Have you ever thought about that for this religion to be so

    sexually repressed in this world their heaven is nothing but

    sex? I prefer not to go to their idea of heaven, sound more

    like hell to me.

  28. Well,

    I have not seen anything yet to convince me that the extreamists of any religion are anything but.. extreame? The concept itself of sucicide bombers is a sick idea. Not one that would be the creation of a God of any religion. Now you can go on for hours bantering back and forth about how we are right and you are wrong, but in the end, killing is wrong, period. No good reason, no excuse. It’s wrong. After all, they kill us, so we bomb them, so they kill us, so we bomb them, etc, etc. How many innocent children of both sides must suffer for the false belief that “OUR GOD” loves us to kill the bad guys. Notice I have not mentioned any particular religion here, because as we all know, honestly, EVERY major religion has had some blood on it’s hands at one time in history or another. So, what’s the point of further killings? Simple, hate. Hate because of difference. “They aren’t like us, so lets kill them”. Makes great sense, right?

    I truely believe that when we all get to heaven, God is going to stuff our misgiven dogma in a most uncomfortable location and spank us with our “hate” of our fellow humans, whom he has also created. To hate another because of their religion is the same as saying, “God has created all, but he was mistaken making them, so I know more than God does and I’m justified in killing them for this reason”. How foolish.

  29. To get back to the main issue here, I think what Luxenburg was trying to do is to try to make those killers ( I am not referring to all moslems, just those crazy bastards who run around bombing themselves to kill others) to have a different point of view of what might be their reason of commiting suicide bombings.

    WHAT IF…?just try to think it that way.., what if it were like Luxenburg proposed, wouldn’t it be more peaceful?

    I mean afterall, these religious languages are often symbolic and don’t have to be interpreted directly.., don’t you think?

  30. People who think abut others relegion rather dan thinking abut demselfs stop thinking wots happen in ther just think abut urself nonmuslims n people who just point out negatives things from the holy quran. com on guyz think wise think carefully n try justifyin things n stop makin such foolish n childish comments

  31. What a crock of shit about grapes!!! Muslims say that the Koran has never been changed!!!! Apart from The Koran being stolen from The Bible now your wishing to double back and fix up/change the parts in the koran that are absolute filth. Sex in heaven!!! I am not Jew, Muslim, Catholic, Pagan etc but honestly sex in heaven sounds like absolute filth. If there is a heaven Muslims will certainly be the last to know about it as i think God would truly grow tired of the perverted state of sex in heaven. Islam Satans new addition and add on to christianity and judaism.

    Qur’an Alone Muslims certainly know what their yapping about when telling the world that The Prophet Muhammad was a scammer!!!

  32. Regarding Suicide Bombers

    A person who takes an innocent life is not a Muslim, therefore he is not related to Islam what ever s/he believe in.

    [2:191] You may kill those who wage war against you, and you may evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is worse than murder. Do not fight them at the Sacred Masjid, unless they attack you therein. If they attack you, you may kill them. This is the just retribution for those disbelievers.

    [4:29] O you who believe, do not consume each others’ properties illicitly – only mutually acceptable transactions are permitted. You shall not KILL yourselves. GOD is Merciful towards you.

    A question to think about, if you are with your family. A father (you), mother and lets say 3 children’s. You are minding your own business, you do not interfere with others etc.

    What would you do, if a team of few soldiers broke into your house, shoots the children, the father and takes the advantage of the wife before killing her?

    Off course, the mother (majority) can not defend themselves in anyway.

    If on the other hand, you prepared yourself, just in case someone was to break into your home, in such a case.

    The father suicides himself killing the soldiers saving his 3 daughters and wife.

    What would you think, he did the right thing? Should he be known as a suicide bomber?

  33. Okay lets think about this logically. Assume heaven has virgins. Those virgins would have had to have died on earth as virgins and then went to heaven as virgins. It would not be possible to be a virgin in heaven if you were a whore on earth. So, only women that were pure in life can be pure in heaven. Now how many women have died pure and have been muslim? Think about that. If you are a muslim how many women have you known like that? Any? Maybe 1? well assume its 1. Assume the total number of women you have know ever known or known of is 1000. that means 1 in 100 could become virgins in heaven. So there are 1,000,000,000 muslims in the world. Half are women so there are 50,000,000 women… 1 in 1000 are pure so that’s 500,000 that could be pure i heaven… now divide that number by 72. You get less than 7000. So in todays generation there are only enough virgins for 7000 martyrs. Yes in the previous generation there were also pure women but clearly not as many women as today. So in this generation there are only 7000 spots for martyrs. Now how many muslims have died in holy wars as martyrs? If you are to believe the mullahs every afghan fighter that died fighting against the russians was a martyr and there was a lot more than 7000 muslims that died.

    This lead to only a few possible explanations.

    If the Koran was talking about virgins then it was a lie.

    The Koran was talking about white grapes and someone mistranslated it to virgins.

    So if you are a muslim which answer do you like best… A, the Koran is alie or B. somene messed up and translated a word wrong.

    Go on take your pick. Either the Koran is a lie or someone made a mistake.

  34. @ Yirmin Snipe

    For it to be logic, it would be logical to read the Qur’an and understand as much as possible. Before committing oneself to hearsay.


    Among them are gentiles who do not know the scripture, except through hearsay, then assume that they know it.


    The example of such disbelievers is that of parrots who repeat what they hear of sounds and calls, without understanding. Deaf, dumb, and blind; they cannot understand.


  35. Samm, after reading all the ignorant posts above, I couldn’t have put it in any better words than the verse you just quoted:


    The example of such disbelievers is that of parrots who repeat what they hear of sounds and calls, without understanding. Deaf, dumb, and blind; they cannot understand.

    This verse totally sums up what is going on in the world today. Instead of trying to find out what Muslims, Islam and the Quran are really all about through REAL research like reading authentic scholarly sources and speaking with devout, orthodox followers who know the religion and actually follow it, these ignorant people just repeat whatever rhetoric they hear from their peers, teachers, and of course, TV. It’s sad how uneducated this society has become. No wonder all the big corporations have to outsource their important jobs to places like China and India!!

  36. Compare Jesus with Muhamed! One man has a vision and Islam is born some five hundred years after Jesus is put to death. Did Muhamed raise the dead, give site to the blind, cure leprosy and other deseases, did he make the crippled to walk again? Did Muhamed calm the storms of the sea. did he feed the multitudes of thousand of people that flocked to him with only 2 fish and 3 loaves of bread? And did Muhamed rise form the dead?

    Was Muhamed greater than Jesus? It simply amazes me that in comparison, who could doult which one of these men really represents God. You choose for yourself. In many of these muslim nations you don’t have a choice to choose who you will serve. It’s alluh only. Why don’t the muslim nations let other religions flurish? I think it is because their religion is a way for them to control and oppress their people.

  37. Well said J.C. If Islam is so great why is it so afraid of any other belief system? I feel sorry for any poor person sucked in to the hoax that is Islam. Why can’t you have a bible in Saudi Arabia? Any faith that is so scared of close analysis is nothing but a joke.

  38. “Did Muhamed raise the dead, give site to the blind, cure leprosy and other deseases, did he make the crippled to walk again? Did Muhamed calm the storms of the sea. did he feed the multitudes of thousand of people that flocked to him with only 2 fish and 3 loaves of bread? And did Muhamed rise form the dead?”

    Did Jesus?

  39. Da grapes thing is silly. I eat more dan dat in a day.Grapes dont have eyes;and still no one has said anything about us poor gals.Hugh Hefner has a muslim heaven on earth no need for him to convert or die.I still wanna know wat we gals are getting,im well pissed as a muslim gal.please if anyone can confirm anything lemme know.i mean my hubby cant satisfy me here on earth wat the hell is he gona do up there.i wonder if ill get the same treatment do i get 72 odd blokes to get off with?and who needs the local pub when rivers of wine are flowing?and its free.but im messing serious that wine is supposed to be alcohol free so we cant get high who wants to puke in heaven?

  40. Oh, but wouldn’t I love to read the Q’uaran in it’s original language! Also the Talmud, in the ancient Hebrew (which is now s dead as Latin). And the bible, as origionally written, before King James got hold of it…

  41. It seems both Christianity and Islam make no sense. The Old Testament is based on people hearing voices and hallucinations (what do we think of people that do that today?) And it is full of murder, rape and torture (no wonder Arabs are scared of the Jews!) There is also no mention of heaven at all in the first three books. And in Islam it is just fine to murder other Muslims (Sunni vs. Shiite) but no drinking or sex until heaven when men go wild. Anyway, the only virgins I know are old wrinkled women or as ugly as sin.

    The more questions one asks the sillier religion becomes. God is great, religion is not.

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