Musharraf fiddles while Islamabad goes to the dogs

Posted April 9, 2007 to Pakistan category.

Schools and libraries are pretty important things, perhaps the most important for any country. So the following is pretty amazing - Islamabad has well over a million people, and yet doesn't have a single children's library. Wow. And this is the place where all the enlightened moderation of Pervez Musharraf stems from. That is just amazing. I wonder how many children's schools the capital of Pakistan has. It's a good thing the government is about to change, for the rate at which enlightened moderation is spreading, there won't be any if left up to the current government.

It seems that there was a children's library in Islamabad, but it has been taken over by a bunch of retards which doesn't like books very much. The government obviously agrees with them, as it sent out the Minister for Religious affairs, (it seems along with being nuts, the group is also religious), and struck a deal with the militants. That deal left the library in the hands of suicide bombers.

And so we have no libraries for children in the capital of Pakistan. We do have a lot of madrassehs where they can go instead and read books watch videos on Jihad instead.

There has been a lot of fuss in the press and media about talibanization this and talibanization that. It seems to me that the bigger picture is that in the absence of education something else is going to take it's place. The government never thought fit to go beyond lip service on education so millions of children had nowhere to go. This vaccum was eagerly filled by thousands of Madressehs around the country who took these children in, fed them, clothed them, and taught them their own private, often times perverted version of Islam.

The upper class sent their children to private schools and never bothered about the absolute failure of the government schools. An old saying goes something like this: "Where the children goes, so goes the country" and this is what is happening today in Pakistan. There is a whole generation of madrasseh trained people who do not know how to think or reason for themselves, and it is perhaps too late for them to do anything else besides live a reactionary life fueled by hatred and Islam, for they do not know any better. The country failed them a long time ago, and it shouldn't blame them for doing the only thing they can do.

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Khalid this is the very first time you sound very ignorant to me. Is this because I am not in Synch with your thoughts and please before you label me some militant[since you quoted adil's site so you would have read my comments as well] and ban me by coming up with argument, I would like to ask two questions related with your opinions about madarassah and Pakistani education system.


The government never thought fit to go beyond lip service on education so millions of children had nowhere to go. This vaccum was eagerly filled by thousands of Madressehs around the country who took these children in, fed them, clothed them

How did you reach to conclusion that Madrassahs are filled with poors only? If I agree with your theory then why do I see lots of young kids begging on roads and wiping your wind screen with dirty wipers? Why didn't they join a madrassah to get some "militant" training.


The upper class sent their children to private schools and never bothered about the absolute failure of the government schools

Intresting so you want to say that past 2 generations of pakistan were used to go in Private schools? or you assume that every Pakistani used to go KGS in past as well? There are several famous pakistani names who got education in govt schools for instance Dr. Shah of AO Clinic. Are you trying to make the point that private schools are successful stories while govt schools are not hence the outcome was admission in Madrassah.


There is a whole generation of madrasseh trained people who do not know how to think or reason for themselves,

Really? By your logic, Musharraf[which is often raped by your articles]Nawaz,Bibi,Yahya Khan,ZAB etc etc etc were madrassah products since they never bothered to produce something sensible?

I am very disappointed that I kept consider you a sensible soul for long time. Just because you despise a community you painted everyone with a single brush. How do I rate you different than the dictator who is criticized by you. I am sorry my friend, I found you as a "yet another below average Pakistani"- No offense.

How did you reach to conclusion that Madrassahs are filled with poors only?

Nothing is absolute, and there are obviously all income ranges in Madrassahs, but the majority aren't rich. Statistics compiled by NGO's and the Pakistan govt. show that much of the 17,000 madrassahs in Pakistan have people from mostly lower income groups, many of which make under a dollar a day, which is internationally defined as being under the poverty line.

Besides that, most Madrasseh students do not work, thus they don't generate an income, and hence live on stipends from home, or from the Madrasseh itself. Some of the richer students donate large sums to the Madrasseh of their choice, and become poor in the process. And so on... there are many variations on this, but to learn more look up a few studies on it.

If I agree with your theory then why do I see lots of young kids begging on roads and wiping your wind screen with dirty wipers? Why didn't they join a madrassah to get some "militant" training.

Firstly, there is a difference b/w theory and fact. Don't confuse the two. Secondly, most madrassah's aren't providing 'militant' training. They are providing "religious" training.

Also, joining a Madrasseh is not everyone's cup of tea. You do know that Pakistan has a population of over 160 million, the majority of which have never even seen the inside of a madrasseh.

interesting so you want to say that past 2 generations of Pakistan were used to go in Private schools?

You make no sense here. There are no such assumptions above. Read it again. The majority of Pakistani politicians went to a small handfull of schools. Before ZAB nationalized them, many of these "elite" schools were govt. owned. That did not make them any less elite. The rest of the country went to no school, or to government schools which lagged far behind the "better schools".

Are you trying to make the point that private schools are successful stories while govt schools are not hence the outcome was admission in Madrassah.

Private schools in Pakistan are nothing great, and some are really bad, but they are incomparably better than most government schools. If you have read any of the myriad studies done on education by numerous govt. commissions you would understand that. More than half the country goes to no schools. A small percentage of that goes to Madrassahs.

Really? By your logic, Musharraf[which is often raped by your articles]Nawaz,Bibi,Yahya Khan,ZAB etc etc etc were madrassah products since they never bothered to produce something sensible?

Producing something sensible and thinking for one's self are two very different things. I am sure Nawaz and BB put a lot of thought into increasing their bank accounts, while ZAB had more ideas than any ten other Pakistani politician.

Adnan, you've displayed a remarkable talent for interpolating and ascribing "thoughts" to me which I never said above, or elsewhere. You should read what I actually wrote before skimming it, applying your own interpretations which are clearly not mine, and then in essence replying to yourself.

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Besides that, most Madrasseh students do not work, thus they don't generate an income, and hence live on stipends from home

Khalid, usually Pakistani students whether they belong to a madarssah or some university like NED ,DOW do NOT work while studying and they rely on their supporters, is it NOT true? youth who come out of madarassah are usually appointed either as a teacher in same or other madarassah,as a teacher in some uni to teach Islamic studies[for instance Mufti Munibur rahman]. As far as unemployment is concerned, yes I wouldn't disagree but you would also admit that there are thousands of non-religious students who are unemployed in karachi only and several of them busy in crimes.For instances Car/mobile snatchers. I hope you will agree that these kids are not madrassah product. The point you raised that madarassah students are backed up madrassah even after post-education period, I think it's a good thing[if it exist] and it should be adapted by non-religious education institutes as wel as it gives moral support to newly graduated student who usually feel frustrated if he doesn't get job.


while ZAB had more ideas than any ten other Pakistani politician.

Ideas but not implementation, at the end of the day we see no outcome at all. ZAB had only medal associated with him ,the atomic bomb which has been made controversial by the current dictator govt.


to me which I never said above,

Things said by you:

We do have a lot of madrassehs where they can go instead and read books watch videos on Jihad instead.

then you said this:

clothed them, and taught them their own private, often times perverted version of Islam.

these are few general statments which you made for ALL madarassah of Pakistan. I am also condemning these points only. Where did I deny you and said that suicide bombing is the good thing and they are doing right? on every forum i appreciated their cause but also condemned the way they tried to pull out filth of society but when i see that my ruler himself speaks the language of DANDA then what can I say to them? My ruler says hes more muslin than a muslim because he got into kaaba 7 times, the other party also says same. My Ruler says that he would strike on enemy[balochis] from the place where they can't imagine, same was repeated by hafsa mgmt. My ruler says 'I am the one who can throw out every filth' same is said by hafsa mgmt. So I don't understand who should be blamed first. Nation copy their rulers. If ruler is not on right path then how could I expect from others to follow the right path. Decide yourself and read again what actually i was criticizing about. A blogger of your calibre doesn't sound good to make statments by quoting some XYZ NGO. Did you ask that particular NGO to give you stats of unemployeed non-madarssah Pakistani students? ask them and you would get a horrible stats. Most of NGOs or people who learn desi stuff from sources like FOX,CNN etc doesn't make attempt to consult the concerned parties first. Generally madrassah syllabus is called JEHADI syllabus but noone yet provided any authentic list of madarassah syllabus which is taught to madarssah student and every TOm,DICK and Harry who wants to score points infront of outsider just blindly believe in them. Your rant that madrassah students see jehadi video is the little example of a brainwashed Pakistani. I have contacted few madaris of Karachi and i got chance to make a rough review of their syllabus. You wouldn't believe me that they teach computers,physiology,logics and several other non-religious subject which we should have taught to our kids but we don't. If those madarassah kids wear shalwar kameez then it doesnt mean that they are unacceptable or rejected souls of our society. our forefathers were not used to wear fashionable dresses while studying yet we were given finest men and women by past generations.

I hope I cleared my point of view further. I picked the point which I had disagreed and I am still talking about them. Still you feel that I am just rejecting your entire post then I am helpless to make you believe that you are wrong. I just registered my protest and I know I am not here to erase your mind. I thnk i have expressed my point of very clearly so i dont think it would need to fill your machine space further. I have still not forgot the letter you wrote to Indians and like others I also have very high expectation from you. Your blog is the only pakistani Feed which is my RSS aggregator and the reason is that I had found you different from others. I hope you would keep your status as per others expectation otherwise u r free to say whatever you want,afterall it's your own personal space.

Kind regards,

Sigh. You missed the point again. There is no tar brush painting all madrassehs in the same light. Obviously there are many different types. Sadly, many of them aren't anything to write home about. I'm not going to bother refuting the new errors you made in this post - it would require too much time. A few points though:

Look up the recent Pakistan govt. survey of madrassehs, done by Pakistan's, not NGO's. which concluded that the majority do not teach anything besides religious studies. A few token classes on sciences don't count. Many madrasseh graduates remain unemployable outside the religious world. Graduates from NED and other such universities don't.

Most of NGOs or people who learn desi stuff from sources like FOX,CNN etc doesn't make attempt to consult the concerned parties first.
Some NGO's in Pakistan are doing a lot of good work for this country, it is extremely insulting to demean them like this. I accuse you of the same - going off without having made an effort to learn what is really going on.

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khalid if you deny your own made statments then I am pretty helpless. Despite of what you want to say, I still remind you your letter which you wrote to Indians after their lunatic and offensive letter to Pakistanis. The reason your letter was appreciated by Pakistans as well as Indians was your soft tone which you used in your letter.

Now there are possibilities that either you consider your own pakistanis lower than Indians due to clash of ideology,if its about ideology conflict then there is a conflict between Pakistani and Indian Ideology as well. I don't understand how come you use different tone for two different communities? it's like someone scolds his own brother and ignore the mistakes of strangers. what a pitty. Either that letter was written by someone else who was very mature in thinking or you have changed in past few years. God knows the best shrug

I would like to comment on two points. Firstly, I have some insight of the NGOs and I agree with Adnan that most of them are rubbish, comprising of brown sahibs who does all their field work sitting either in their AC offices or meeting in five-star hotels. There is a small percentage of NGOs that is really doing credible work but their work is often overshadowed by the bullying white elephants.

Secondly, I have seen people blown away with emotions while arguing for and against the religious schools. While many won't believe this, the religious schooling system is most organized educational system in Pakistan reaching to remote areas where English-medium schools and enlightened education commission haven't even dreamed of going. This penetration of religious school was exploited by the government during Afghan war to produce raw blood. When the war ended they were dumped and disowned.

Unfortunately we stereotype all religious schools as jihadi-factories, which is not true at all. To cut the long story short, I believe all this fuss of talibanization is a facade, as discussed here.

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